Just How Much Money Did Trayvon’s Parents Make Off His Death?


trayvon martin dad

The Judge in the Zimmerman case is scheduled to rule today regarding Mark O’Mara’s request to “unseal” the settlement agreement in the civil suit between Martin’s parents and the homeowners association for the complex where Martin was killed. The settlement agreement has already been produced but the actual amount has been kept confidential, as required by the terms of the settlement agreement. It appears undisputed that the amount of the settlement is at least 1 Million dollars.

Generally the amount of money paid in a civil case would have no relevance in a criminal case. If the provisions of the settlement agreement require the parties to keep the terms of the settlement confidential, as in the case at hand, the amount of the settlement would generally not be relevant or admissible. However in this case O’Mara asserts that the recovery of a large settlement amount is relevant because it would provide a motive or incentive for the father to give favorable testimony towards his son’s innocence, and Zimmerman’s culpability. In particular O’Mara cites Tracy Martin’s statements immediately after the incident when he listened to the screams for help on the 9-11 recording. When Chris Serlino of the Sanford Police played the 911 recording shortly after the death, Martin’s father reported it was not the voice of his son.

Martin’s father changed his opinion about the voice he heard with the explanation that the newer version of the recording was clearer and that he was in an “extreme emotional state” when he first reported that it was not the voice of his son.

Initially the Court will have to consider whether the amount of the settlement is “discoverable” rather than whether it is “admissible” at trial. The standards are different, and simply because the judge allows the information to be available during discovery is not necessarily an indication that the evidence would be admissible during trial. Evidence of this sort might never be needed at trial by the defendant’s attorney as the father might not testify regarding his opinion of whether the voice is Trayvon Martin’s. Experts have done a voice analysis and determined that the voice IS NOT George Zimmerman’s.The testimony of these experts would likely be more persuasive than that of a parent. While O’Mara may offer testimony of an expert to refute the testimony of the state’s experts, such an expert has not yet been identified by O’Mara.

scales justice

I would anticipate the judge will allow discovery of the amount of the settlement, but that decision would not necessarily mean that the jury would ever be allowed to be made aware of the settlement, or the amount thereof. O’Mara might try to call Martin’s father to testify simply to get before the jury his initial impression that the voice was not Trayvon’s. However the knowledge of the jury that the homeowner’s association paid a substantial amount of money to Martin’s parents might be perceived by the jury as an admission of culpability on the part of the homeowners association as a result of Zimmerman’s wrongful acts.

Thus, whether the judge requires disclosure of the amount of the settlement or not in the discovery phase of the case, at the time of trial it seems unlikely that the jury will ever be told about the settlement. In fact it may be O’Mara who would object to the jury knowing anything about the civil settlement. If I were the judge, I would sustain O’Mara’s objections to introduction of any evidence of a settlement in the civil case by the homeowner’s association. It would be too prejudicial to the Defendant to allow the jury to know anything about a civil settlement. If O’Mara uses the settlement as evidence he presents to the jury, he is not the caliber of attorney I think he is.

omara and zimmerman

114 thoughts on “Just How Much Money Did Trayvon’s Parents Make Off His Death?

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  1. An Eyewitness actually saw Zimmerman screaming. The media’s lying to you again about the screamer.

    The media’s voice expert is no expert at all, he’s a complete joke.

    “Tom Owen. Is he really a “forensics expert?”
    Well, no. He has a B.A. in History, not forensics.

    Well, surely since he’s an expert, he went to Harvard or Yale or Oxford, right?
    Well, no he went to Bellarmine College in Kentucky. You’ve heard of Bellarmine College, right? [Normally I deplore this credentialism but if Tom Owen was an expert for the right his college degree is all we would hear about.]

    Well, but surely he’s worked for the FBI or CIA as a forensics examiner?
    No, but he did work for the New York Public Library in charge of their Rogers and Hammerstein archive.

    But surely he’s written some books about forensics that the FBI and CIA use, right?
    No, but he has written extensively about the banjo and did a coloring book:

    Tom Owen, Scaling the Fretboard (Chappell Music 1973)
    Tom Owen, The Chord Coloring Book (Chappell Music 1974)
    Tom Owen, Tenor Banjo (Chappell Music 1975)
    Tom Owen, Lead Guitar (Chappell Music 1976)
    Tom Owen, The Classic Blues Singers (Chappell Music 1977)

    What about his wife Jennifer Owen … surely she’s a hotshot FBI forensics examiner, right?
    No, she makes Powerpoint presentations and is a secretary with a political science degree, not a forensics degree.

    But surely they have an advanced forensic acoustics laboratory where they conduct their forensic analysis right?
    No, they just have a computer in the basement of their house in New Jersey right next to the railroad tracks.

    But surely he’s a member of the American Board of Recorded Evidence?
    Yes, but he and his wife run the Board. He’s the chairman, and she’s a board member. The Board is run out of a weight-loss clinic in Springfield, Missouri along with a bunch of other dubious “boards,” “colleges” and “Institutes.”
    American Board for Certification in Homeland Security‎ – Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MO
    American Association for Integrative Medicine Inc – Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MO
    American College of Forensic‎ Examiners International – Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MOC
    College of Wellness – Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MO
    American Psychotherapy Association – Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MO

    There are no colleges or real boards here. There’s a fat farm weight loss clinic at that location. They appear to have certified themselves experts by running this board themselves.

    Now, let’s examine the software they used to perform their analysis. How good is it?

    Well, given two KNOWN samples of speech by President Richard M. Nixon, the software only matched two recordings to a 86% match.

    Remember, Mr. Owen said he’d expect a 90% match before he concluded that the voices were identical. Although when he’s testifying in murder cases, he claims a 68% match is enough to send someone to prison for the rest of their life (CT v Sheila Davalloo). Even in the software makers own demonstration of the product, using two KNOWN samples of speech from the same famous person, there was only an 86% match.

    What about the algorithm they’re using to make the comparison? How good is it? UNKNOWN. That’s proprietary. They won’t tell you what they’re actually measuring.”

    that’s from http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2012/04/this-is-the-expert-witness-the-orlando-sentinel-is-touting.html

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    1. There were no eye witnesses, but there were several who HEARD a young boy screaming “help” as the mentally deranged lunatic wannabe-cop assassinated him.

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      1. False, there were 2 eyewitnesses, one of whom specifically saw & heard Zimmerman crying for help.

        Also, Trayvon’s father also said it was not his son’s voice, and only changed his mind after having hired a lawyer and a PR firm and was suing the HOA.

        Also, Trayvon was beating the crap out of Zimmerman which would make no sense at all to cry for help while beating the crap out of someone.

        Also, Zimmerman was getting his head slammed into the concrete so it makes perfect sense for him to be crying for help.

        Stop lying to yourself.

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      2. Truth, your name is an oxymoron, because you tell anything but the truth. Fact: Zimmerman was not in any way a law enforcement or neighborhood watchman. Fact: Zimmerman was told by the police not to approach Martin. Fact: Zimmerman was armed with a gun, his teenage victim was armed with Skittles and iced tea. Fact: Zimmerman shot Martin. Fact: Zimmerman lied about his injuries, because there is footage of him in the police station right after he murdered Martin, and he was not injured.

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      3. Tracey, your lies are lame and stupid. They have been obliterated repeatedly throughout these discussion threads. I will not help you catch up.

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      4. Truth, you wouldn’t recognize the truth if it walked up to you and slapped you upside your head.

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      5. …but there were several who HEARD a young boy screaming “help”…

        What young boy was present during the altercation between Martin and Zimmerman?

        Witness 6 still maintains that he believes that he witnessed Zimmerman, not Martin, screaming, even though he could not see Zimmerman’s mouth clearly.

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      6. @Tracey:

        Your assertions of “fact” do not comport to reality.

        Truth, your name is an oxymoron, because you tell anything but the truth. Fact: Zimmerman was not in any way a law enforcement or neighborhood watchman.

        Wrong. Zimmerman was a member of the Neighborhood Watch program, and in fact organized that NHW program, and was recognized by the HOA as the captain of that NHW program.

        (Though, NHW is, for all intents and purposes, irrelevant to the case.)

        Fact: Zimmerman was told by the police not to approach Martin.

        Wrong. Zimmerman was told by the non-emergency number operator, who does not and cannot issue orders under the color of police authority, that they “[didn’t] need [Zimmemran] to [follow Martin]”.

        Further: Zimmerman asserts that he complied with that statement, and can clearly be heard on the NEN call recording to say, “Okay” in response. There remains no evidence whatsoever that Zimmerman did otherwise.

        Also: at the time of that exchange, Zimmerman had lost sight of Martin (in fact, he lost sight of Martin while Zimmerman was still in his vehicle). There was no pursuit, because Zimmerman didn’t know where Martin was, in order to attempt to pursue him.

        And most importantly: even if Zimmerman had blatantly disregarded the NEN operator’s statement, doing so would not have been an illegal act, and would not have deprived Zimmerman of the right to defend himself.

        Fact: Zimmerman was armed with a gun, his teenage victim was armed with Skittles and iced tea.

        Wrong. Martin was also “armed” with his fists, which he used to break Zimmerman’s nose. Martin was also armed with superior force ability, which he used to knock Zimmerman to the ground, mount him, and prevent him from getting up and escaping. Martin was also armed with his hands and arms, which he used forcibly to restrain Zimmerman, knock him back to the ground multiple times as Zimmerman attempted to escape, and to knock Zimmerman’s head into the ground.

        Only after at least 40 seconds of such assault (as-recorded on the 911 call, and in all probability much longer) did Zimmerman use his gun to defend himself.

        Fact: Zimmerman shot Martin.

        Well, you got one right. Congratulations!

        Fact: Zimmerman lied about his injuries, because there is footage of him in the police station right after he murdered Martin, and he was not injured.

        Wrong. The police department video, when shown in its original resolution/quality, clearly showed Zimmerman’s head bleeding. Further, on-scene eye-witnesses, including neighbors, police officers, and responding EMT personnel, all gave statements corroborating Zimmerman’s injuries. And the medical record shows that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a broken nose.

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      7. i am not one either side, because i wasnt there. i do however want to know why the parents let that boy run around in the middle of the night by himself in a rough neighborhood……stupid.

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    2. “Chip” (non-“Truth”), the neighborhood watch president and several others revealed that not only wasn’t Zimmerman part of the neighborhood watch, but several of the neighbors had numerous complaints about ZIMMERMAN as a creepy, menacing idiot.

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      1. @Tracey:

        “Chip” (non-”Truth”)…

        Indeed. “Truth” is not my name. Another commenter here uses that name. I use my real name. You can also tell us apart by our avatars. But thanks for the further clarification, I guess?

        …the neighborhood watch president and several others revealed that not only wasn’t Zimmerman part of the neighborhood watch, but several of the neighbors had numerous complaints about ZIMMERMAN as a creepy, menacing idiot.

        [citation needed]

        I can produce citations for everything that I’ve stated with respect to eye-witness statements, police reports, and medical records.

        Can you produce evidence of your above statement? I would love to see it.

        In fact, I assert that what you’ve written is utterly specious, unless and until you cite some source. Zimmerman was the one who organized the NHW program, and coordinated the SPD presentation to community members at an HOA meeting. (Refer to the State’s discovery; I believe the emails and NHW discussion are in either the original discovery release, or one of the first supplements.)

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  2. Zimmerman seems to be enjoying his fan club wealth–even while in jail– we all know how he feasted on his donations when he was out–by the looks of him you’de never know he literally killed an innocent young African American kid with skiddles in his pocket. As to how much of a settlement the parents got for the wrongful death of their son?…has no bearing in my book. You couldn’t pay them enough to replace the presence of their son. If they had a choice between the two today..settlment or our son. It would no doubt about it be Trayvon, their son, for the Martins. No one should take that away from that beautiful Mother and Father he had. But someone should teach the Zimmermans a thing or two about humanity.

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    1. Trayvon did not live with either parent, they dished him off on whoever they could. Within 3 days of his death, they hired a PR firm to drive a media frenzy. Within a month they were suing the HOA, without anyone yet being charged with a crime. While on his 3rd suspension, his father left him at his mistress’s home to fend for himself, rather than spending some much-needed personal time with a boy in desperate need of parental guidance. I don’t doubt they loved him, but they sure neglected the poor kid and certainly did not put in the time needed to raise a child properly. It is no wonder he drifted off into a crime-riddled adolescence. These people have no shame. Trayvon is dead because of them and they’re willing to put an innocent man in jail for their mistakes & try getting rich off of doing so.

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      1. That’s about how I see it. Although I don’t think it’s the Martin’s fault, per say, that Trayvon is dead, but I think they were absentee parents. However, kids can be very difficult and at times you can be overwhelmed. And sometimes no matter what you do, your child turns out “bad”. Again though, I feel that given the choice the Martins would want the money over T back. I’ve never seen a more blatant attempt to profit off of a death.

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  3. So what that he didn’t live with either parent. How many kids do not live with their parents? Does it make him an automatic thug and guilty because he is black because his clearly civilized parents were divorced? You people are so one sided. You sure have painted a convenient picture for yourself. Obviously makes you feel good. LIES don’t make it true tho does it? Clearly it fits with your mental hatred of anything unlike yourself. You clearly could care less if an innocent African american’s life is taken. And easily paint him as deserving it. But you do care for people like zimmerman who had no right to kill Trayvon..none but for his hate and anxiousness to kill a black person? zimmerman IS GUILTY AS HELL and will pay the price for what he did. I hope that doesn’t ruin your day.

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    1. Martin assaulted Zimmerman. It is not disputed. He was killed because he assaulted Zimmerman, not because of “his hate and anxiousness to kill a black person”. That is YOU that has a “mental hatred of anything unlike yourself”. Stop trying to apply that to me. You know nothing about me.

      I do not hate Travyon at all, I feel very bad for what happened to him. But blaming an innocent man is the wrong thing to do. That is just plain EVIL and you seem to support that EVIL.

      While Trayvon himself deserves most of the blame for having assaulted Zimmerman, his parents deserve a lot of blame as well, for having children and not providing the time that children need. Poor Trayvon headed down the wrong path and his parents did not help. Wake up.

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    2. Who are “you people”? No one hates Trayvon or felt he deserved to die. He did deserve better parents though. Most don’t care about race, in fact we don’t even consider race a factor, so when the media and the black community come out shouting and demanding that this was racially motivated, we’re left scratching our heads. It boggles my mind that people actually, truly believe that Z stalked and hunted down T and then shot him because he was,”walking while black”. It’s absolutely absurd. It’s like people WANT to believe that and try so hard to make the facts represent that. But Z was no racist. He had a black great-grandmother and was half Hispanic. He also was known to not be racist. In this day and age everyone knows that blacks are being held above whites and to a separate standard. Everyone keeps saying if a black man shot a white kid in a hoodie, he’d have been arrested on the spot for murder. I disagree! He would have been investigated as appropriate and released as well.

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  4. Geez “truth”, how do you define “innocent”?
    Why are you so defensive about a murderer? Trayvon is not around to tell his side of the story because he was murdered. Perhaps it was Trayvon standing his ground before he was killed. Even if Trayvon was involved in juvenile crime (for which no evidence has been produced), he did not deserve to be executed on the street.

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    1. Geez “truth”, how do you define “innocent”?
      – Self-defense is not a crime, hence “innocent”

      “Why are you so defensive about a murderer?”
      Most would say I was offensive about a innocent man. You are the one supporting the criminal.

      “Trayvon is not around to tell his side of the story because he was murdered.”
      False, he has told plenty of his story:
      1. He was witnessed beating the crap out of Zimmerman
      2. He was told by witnesses to stop and he did not.
      3. His timeline tells us he had enough time to crawl home, but instead chose to double-back and assault Zimmerman
      4. His troubled criminal past indicates he was dangerous.
      5. His parents dished him off to live with whoever would take him in
      6. During his 3rd suspension, his dad left him at his mistress’s house alone with his mistress’s younger son to fend for themselves when he was clearly troubled and in need of parental guidance.

      That’s Trayvon’s own testimony. Those are facts. Looks like you missed it.

      “Perhaps it was Trayvon standing his ground before he was killed.”
      From what? He had no wounds except to his fists of fury. Furthermore he had over 5 minutes to casually walk home if he was so afraid.

      “Even if Trayvon was involved in juvenile crime (for which no evidence has been produced), he did not deserve to be executed on the street.”
      False, evidence has been produced. You have no been keeping up. Furthermore, he was not executed. Furthermore still, it is not because of his past that he was killed, it is because he assaulted Zimmerman with intent to seriously injure or even kill (remember the slamming of the head into the concrete part??).

      There, each and every one of your statements completely obliterated. At this point, everything that you wrote should only be believed by children manipulated by agenda-driven manipulators.

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      1. You are a true genius of completely obliterating statements. Well done. Good thing you have the computer keyboard so you can direct your brain storm somewhere for others to enjoy. You obviously can type very quickly too. It’s just as impressive as your fever logic.

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      2. alan,
        Thank you for sending this. I just think truth is oblivious to anything “real” and to suggest that this wasn’t the reason the judge was recused, is a joke.

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      3. Trayvon had NO record with juvie. He had 3 suspensions because: 1. too many tardies; 2. drew on a couple of lockers; 3. had a baggie in his backpack with traces of marijuana. His teachers liked him and said he was a good student. He talked about taking the ACT/SAT and college plans.
        Trayvon had 1 quarter inch abrasion below the knuckle on his left ring finger. NO wounds to his fists, NO Zimmerman blood or DNA on his hands. Look at the autopsy report. NO WOUNDS AT ALL? Oh, yeah–there was that fatal bullet hole when Trayvon was murdered by Zimmerman.
        Zimmerman is the one with the troubled criminal past that indicated he was dangerous. He had to go to mandated anger control classes to avoid jail for at least one of his offenses–I believe that one was attacking an undercover police officer. He couldn’t keep a job, he couldn’t graduate from JUNIOR college, he liked to puff out his chest and pretend he was a tough guy. Take a look at Zimmerman’s facebook and e-mail pages, unless they’ve disappeared (gee, wonder WHY they may have disappeared!)
        Trayvon’s dad didn’t have a mistress (that’s when you’re married, like Sanford). He had a girl friend, and they had gone out to dinner.

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      4. alan, here’s a link that says Zimmerman did not lie:

        http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/6/5/223228/5631/Colo_News/George-Zimmerman-s-Credibility-

        “Zimmerman did not lie about his finances during his intake interview with pretrial services, which makes a recommendation as to bond. Here’s his intake form. He was never asked about the amount of money he has, only whether he’s employed and was seeking a public defender. He truthfully said he was not employed and his lawyer was Mark O’Mara.”

        See how that works?

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      5. @freckles says: “He had 3 suspensions because: 1. too many tardies; 2. drew on a couple of lockers; 3. had a baggie in his backpack with traces of marijuana.”

        You haven’t been keeping up. He should have been arrested twice (once for stolen jewelry and once for marijuana) and was protected by MD-SPD by lying on their police reports to make their crime-statistics look better.

        @freckles says: “Trayvon’s dad didn’t have a mistress (that’s when you’re married, like Sanford). He had a girl friend, and they had gone out to dinner.”

        Um… wrong.

        Trayvon’s dad was married to Alicia Martin in 2005. He divorced her on Aug. 9, 2012

        http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/12/121914/

        If you’re not up on the facts of the case, you should quiet down and stop spreading the media’s lies

        Here’s known facts:

        1990: Alicia lived in Pembroke Pines, Fl. with Charles Anderson
        1991: Sybrina Fulton and David Scott have a son Jahvaris Fulton(Scott? Martin? He can’t seem to decide which last name he wants)
        1993: Sybrina goes after David for child support starting on 05/05/93
        1993/4: Tracy has a daughter Takira with Larisa Rozier
        1994: Tracy and Sybrina Marry
        1995: Sybrina and Tracy Martin have a son Trayvon
        1996/7: Sybrina and Tracy break up and Tracy gets together with Alicia Twanna Stanley who says she took care of Trayvon on and off for the past 15 years and lived with her on and off for the past 5 years.
        1998 – Alicia and Charles have split up by this time, Charles deeds her the house
        1999: Tracy and Sybrina Divorce
        1999: Larisa B. Rozier filed for child support against Tracy Martin for Takira 10/29/99
        1999/2000 Tracy has a son Demetrius with Cindy Lopez
        Cindy Lopez filed for child support against Tracy Martin for Demetrius 10/06/00
        Tracy may have kids with Alicia
        Finally there is Kevin who is Takira’s brother but from a different father
        2005 Tracy and Alicia are married
        2009 Tracy finds a new woman Brandy Green but is still with Alicia
        2012 Tracy and Alicia Divorce Aug. 9, 2012
        2012 Tracy keeps Brandy as his current relationship on Facebook
        Sept. 2012 Brandy is pregnant with Tracy’s baby

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  5. Let’s remember that the Bernhard Goetz was successfully sued by the men he shot and OJ Simposon was successfully sued by both the Goldman family and Nicole Simpson’s family. The Martin’s lawsuit is not a stretch.

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  6. Tracy Martin’s initial reaction is a common part of the grieving process, denial. A loved one may have died. The police play a recording and ask if it is the loved one. In denial we think “If it’s not the voice of a loved one, that person will still be alive.”

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    1. aj,
      Especially because he was crying for help, and the parents didn’t want to think that they weren’t there to help their child and he cried out for help!

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      1. I believe Zimmerman was crying for help … basically meowing “help”, “help” while being beaten

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      2. A person might cry for help when he’s being beaten up, even if he started the fight and even if his life wasn’t actually in danger.

        I wonder if Zimmerman showed Martin the gun at the beginning of the confrontation. It would explain why Martin attacked him and how Zimmerman got it out of his holster and in a position to shoot Martin when Martin was on top of him.

        This is all speculation, of course, because we only have Zimmerman’s word to go on.

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      3. jk, your speculation is stupid. When someone pulls a gun on you, you actually don’t fight with your fists, that would be a really stupid reaction. So no, your nonsense doesn’t make any sense at all.

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      4. If Martin thought his life was in danger, he would fight with whatever he had. Martin would have the same right to self defense as Zimmerman. In fact, it would make more sense that Martin would try to kill Zimmerman if Martin believed his own was in danger rather than just trying to kill him for no good reason at all. Regardless of any drug or property crime or status offenses, there’s no evidence that Martin was a cold-blooded killer. You rely too much on the fact that Zimmerman was losing the fight and not enough on what precluded it.

        You can call me a liar or say my scenario is stupid, but more open-minded people will see it is completely in the realm of possibility.

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      5. jk … — And i wonder about Stevie Wonder 🙂

        Malia … — or, especially if living in US, dumb enough to think (or simply don’t think at all) that another party doesn’t have a gun (carrying it legally or illegally).

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      6. no, you don’t attack someone that has a gun in their hand. That is just plain stupid speculation jk’s part. There is no denying the extremely high level of stupidity and irresponsible speculation on her part. She should be entirely embarrassed.

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      7. Wow, truth. Thanks so much for that substantive critique.

        It would be really nice to be able to have a discussion on possible scenarios without being called “stupid” or “irresponsible” (which doesn’t even make sense).

        Luckily, my self-worth doesn’t rely on your predictable and redundant comments.

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      8. @jk:

        You can call me a liar or say my scenario is stupid, but more open-minded people will see it is completely in the realm of possibility.

        “Completely in the realm of possibility” is a far cry from beyond a reasonable doubt. To bridge that gap, one must have evidence to support the allegation.

        All the actual evidence thus far supports the scenario in which a one-sided physical altercation (otherwise known as an assault) took place, and the victim of that one-sided physical altercation defended himself.

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    2. So, either way, he lied, correct? and you’re ok with that, correct?

      Picture this:
      FACT#1: Eyewitnesses see Trayvon’s beating the crap out of Zimmerman, MMA style,
      FACT#2: one of the witnesses sees Zimmerman yelling for help
      FACT#3: witness tells Trayvon to STOP or they’ll call the cops.
      FACT#4: Trayvon does not.
      FACT#5: Trayvon has no injuries to his self except on his fists
      FACT#6: Zimmerman has broken nose consistent with FACTS 1-5
      FACT#7: Zimmerman has lacerated head consistent with FACTS 1-5

      And you’re ok with believing that Trayvon was yelling for help despite FACTS 1 thru 7 ??????

      If you say you do, I highly recommend checking yourself in for some help.

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      1. “April 17, 2013 at 11:09 pm

        alan

        Here is a link discussing the story of Zimmerman lying to the judge.

        http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/04/lying-to-a-judge-
        what-was-george-zimmerman-thinking.htm

        You are quick to label people who post here as liars; what about the undisputed fact that Zimmerman lied to the court?

        Add the fact that his wife also lied after having a recorded conversation with Zimmerman.

        You have on several occasions accused people of lying. What do you say about the evidence of Zimmerman lying?

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      2. alan, I have of yet to accuse YOU of lying because you have not lied. I have only accused the LIARS of LYING.

        You cannot deny that. See, I’m an honest person.

        The Zimmerman have not lied to the court at all. I already disproved that. Here’s an article that shows George never lied:

        http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/6/5/223228/5631/Colo_News/George-Zimmerman-s-Credibility-

        Here’s another article that show Shellie never lied:

        http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/06/perjury-charge-against-shellie-zimmerman-raises-more-questions-of-prosecutorial-overreaching/

        In fact, the last article shows that the actual LIAR is the State Prosecutor who actually EDITED THE BOND HEARING TRANSCRIPT.

        THAT’S RIGHT, THE PROSECUTION EDITED THE BOND HEARING TRANSCRIPT.

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      3. Both of those articles are “opinions” that the Zimmerman’s didn’t lie.

        Here are two more articles worth reading;

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html

        “Right now we’re all on pins and needles,” Tracy Martin said. “When I asked the police why there’s been no arrest, they told me they respected [Zimmerman’s] background, that he studied criminal justice for four years and that he was squeaky clean.”

        He continued: “My question to them was, did they run my child’s background check? They said yes. I asked them what they came up with, and they said nothing. So I asked if Zimmerman having a clean record, did that give him the right to shoot and kill an unarmed kid?”

        George Zimmerman was a “neighborhood WATCH patrol person”.
        His “rank” was “captain”. As the captain of the watch he knew or certainly should have known that it was against policy to carry a gun while participating in watch activities. He also should have been aware of the watch policies that stress that the watchers do NOT confront or chase anyone. So using these guidelines George Zimmerman did not follow proper procedure on two important policies. Add the stories that others in the neighborhood had complained about Zimmerman’s aggressive tactics before Trayvon was killed and it does not look good for his claim of self defense.

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      4. That’s hilarious. As if studying criminal justice for four years (really? then why doesn’t he have a degree?), means anything in terms of behavior. I happen to know many people with criminal justice degrees who are far from “squeaky clean” (let’s start with that police officer in the news recently who recently pulled a gun on the kid waiting for his order at McDonalds).

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      5. Truth, you’re making up stories again.
        Fact: Nobody saw skinny little Travon Martin beating up the pudgy so-called “man” with the gun. You lie.
        Fact: Nobody tells Trayvon Martin to stop yelling for help as the insecure, ball-less man is on top of him with a gun
        Fact: Travon Martin is shot at close-range with that supercilious ass of a failure’s gun, and he didn’t shoot himself
        Fact: The arrogant, vicious loser saunters around the police station with no visible wounds

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      6. no alan, it is not an opinion. The Prosecution actually EDITED the Bond Hearing transcript and presented the EDITED VERSION in their Probable Cause Affidavit to arrest Shellie.

        It’s not an opinion, they did it. You’ve been deceived.

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      7. @Tracey

        I corrected your nonsense for you:

        NONFact: Nobody saw skinny little Travon Martin beating up the pudgy so-called “man” with the gun. You lie.
        NONFact: Nobody tells Trayvon Martin to stop yelling for help as the insecure, ball-less man is on top of him with a gun
        NONFact: Travon Martin is shot at close-range with that supercilious ass of a failure’s gun, and he didn’t shoot himself
        NONFact: The arrogant, vicious loser saunters around the police station with no visible wounds

        Your nonsense it’s downright idiotic full of lies disproven over a year ago. So sad.

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      8. @Tracey:

        Once again, your “facts” do not comport to reality:

        Truth, you’re making up stories again.
        Fact: Nobody saw skinny little Travon Martin beating up the pudgy so-called “man” with the gun. You lie.

        Every single eye-witness to the altercation indicated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. Note, especially, the testimony of Witness 6.

        Fact: Nobody tells Trayvon Martin to stop yelling for help as the insecure, ball-less man is on top of him with a gun

        Witness 6 stated that he yelled for them to “stop it”, and that he was going to call the police (which he then proceeded to do).

        No witnesses saw Zimmerman on top of Martin during the altercation.

        The only time Zimmerman was witnessed on top of Martin was after the gunshot, when Zimmerman extricated himself from underneath Martin, and then very briefly got on top of him, not yet knowing the extent of the gunshot injury.

        The forensic evidence clearly indicates that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, leaning forward, at the time of the gunshot.

        Fact: Travon Martin is shot at close-range with that supercilious ass of a failure’s gun, and he didn’t shoot himself.

        Contact-range, in fact, as demonstrated by the forensic evidence. What’s your point? Once again: that Zimmerman shot Martin has never been disputed.

        Fact: The arrogant, vicious loser saunters around the police station with no visible wounds

        Continually repeating it won’t make it true. The very video you reference clearly shows blood on the back of Zimmerman’s head. The neighbor eye-witnesses, police officers, and responding EMTs all corroborated Zimmerman’s injuries. The medical record indicating a broken-nose diagnosis corroborates Zimmerman’s injuries.

        And most importantly: the self-defense statutes do not mention, much less rely on, the existence or extent of injury as a justification for the use of deadly force. The standards are: commission of a forcible felony (felony aggravated battery – the broken nose – meets this standard), or reasonable fear of imminent risk of life or great bodily harm (the disparity of force, sustained injuries, continual nature of the assault, and Zimmerman’s wails for help as recorded on the 911 call all easily meet the “reasonable fear” threshold).

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      9. Chip,
        Thanks for sharing your views in a factual, non-confrontational way. Every time “truth” utters a word he can’t do it without calling someone a liar, and obviously we are each expressing opinions!

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    3. Of course, Chip.
      I know the difference from a legal standpoint.

      The evidence supports a one-sided assault, but there are details of the confrontation that have no witnesses other than Zimmerman and Martin. Again, I recognize the difference between my speculation and legal “evidence.” I’ve said as much a few times in these Zimmerman threads.

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    4. Ummm that’s quite a stretch, not to mention transferring your own feelings onto Tracy. If your grown child is missing, the police play you a tape of someone crying for help, you’re going to make sure to listen carefully and tell the truth. I think Tracy did exactly that. He knew it wasn’t Trayvon’s voice and said so. The Martin’s know what happened and even Sabrina said it was a tragic accident, until her lawyer shut her up in order to profit.

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  7. Malia, two related things I still can’t figure out:

    1) Why on earth did Crump attach the confidential settlement to the State v. Zimmerman court record? That settlement had nothing to do with the murder case, no parties to the settlement are parties to the State’s murder case, and no parties to the State’s murder case are parties to the settlement.

    2) What standing does self-avowed “non-party” Crump have to file anything with the court record for State v. Zimmerman?

    Florida’s sunshine laws appear to be pretty clear that the settlement, once attached to the court record, cannot be kept confidential. So, absent some other information or reasoning, it would appear that Crump basically shot himself in the foot by attaching the settlement to the court record.

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  8. You could also right a piece aobut how Zimmerman and his family have greatly profited from his killing of a 17 year old kid he’s on record incorrectly, racially profiling before ultimately instigating an altercation in which he killed the 17 year old kid.

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    1. Oh ya…all of them are billionaires, by now, write? 🙂

      right piece of or wrong peace or left piece … of pizza … if hungry can eat anything, lol 🙂

      On a more serious note however, maybe if GZ is found NOT guilty … THEN he can profit somewhat … — write a book about his “pleasant experiences” and life in general (autobiography, so to speak) … make some money … and move to Peru (to his mom’s motherland) … Not the best country to live in, but, at the same time, not the worst one either .. with some money can live there quite comfortably, I am sure 😉

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  9. xperts have done a voice analysis and determined that the voice IS NOT George Zimmerman’s.The testimony of these experts would likely be more persuasive than that of a parent.

    Malia,

    The testimony of these so-called “experts” will either be non-admissible, or utterly impeached.

    The first “expert” has an obvious conflict-of-interest, since he used his brand-new voice-analysis software to make his determination. This software has not been proven to be reliable, and the “expert” has an obvious motive for seeing it used as evidence in a case of this nature/magnitude.

    Tom Owen, the “expert” in question, is part of the father-daughter tandem that operates Owen Forensic Services. That same Owen Forensic Services owns the domain for the Easy Voice Biometrics software. Basically, Owen is pimping his own software (that just happens to cost $5,000).

    Now, you tell me: would he be allowed to testify as an expert witness under those circumstances?

    The second “expert” will be impeached, solely on the basis that he stated that he determined the voice to be that of a “young man”, based on nothing more than merely listening to the recorded screams:

    I originally formed an opinion that the cry for help was not George Zimmerman’s voice, which was the opinion I shared when asked by the major media. I formed my opinion by using my own critical listening skills that I’ve acquired after 28 plus years as an audio forensic expert who also performs voice identification. No scientific voice identification testing was done because I did not have the proper resources.

    (“Critical listening skills”? Seriously? Perhaps he can provide evidence that his ear is calibrated properly to differentiate between the screams of 17-year-old and 28-year-old young men?)

    And both “experts” suffer from the same, fundamental problem: they simply do not have representative voice samples with which to make a definitive analysis. The first “expert” stated that he analyzed the recorded screams against Zimmerman’s voice as-recorded in the NEN call. That’s simply not a valid comparison. He would need a known sample of Zimmerman’s voice under duress/screaming.

    On that note, the second “expert” seems to have recanted a bit (ibid):

    However, I do want to go on record and comment that a more appropriate or exact exemplar needs to be made of George Zimmerman’s voice in order to conduct a proper voice identification test.

    The way to properly record a voice identification exemplar or sample of the accused voice is to have the person recreate the distance of the cell phone call exactly like the police did. Additionally, the delivery of the words need to be as similar to the original as possible.

    Bottom line: the testimony of both witnesses will either be ruled inadmissible, or will be utterly impeached.

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    1. Chip,
      All that you’ve written may be true, but I’m now wondering if it is, why hasn’t the defense retained their own experts to say that it IS Zimmerman. There should be plenty of experts to confirm that if it’s true?

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      1. I would imagine they wouldn’t need to do that if they have eye witnesses and the confusion on the part of Martin’s father.

        In fact, it could work against them because the prosecution would be able to cross examine.

        Do you think that’s accurate, Chip and Malia (I’ll defer to the attorneys in the house).

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      2. @jk

        Just so there is nothing misconstrued:

        I’ll defer to the attorneys in the house

        I’m not a lawyer, and don’t want to give the perception of claiming to be a lawyer. I’m just an engineer.

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      3. Chip,
        I understand and much of what we know, or think we know about the Zimmerman/martin case has nothing to do with being an attorney, so thanks for your perspective.

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      4. I know you’re an attorney, Malia, but for some reason I thought Chip was as well. I need to get more sleep.
        🙂

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  10. ‘Truth'(LIES) why did the HOA pay the Martin Family? Could it be that a Maniac Racist Wannabe Cop was out of control? Hopefully a Zimmerman clone will confront you in your neighborhood with skittles in your pocket and attack you as an intruder. But as uninformed as you are, you would think that he was a Cop, Fool.

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    1. Nuisance settlement. It’s already known.

      Also, that wouldn’t constitute a close of Zimmerman unless it was I that attacked him.

      Fool

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  11. “ABC’s broadcast image of W13′s photo of GZ’s bloody head was altered via photo editing”

    Seriously?????? I guess that the cops must’ve edited the images too cuz they look very consistent. Oh yeah, and the prosecution must’ve edited theiir images that are also consistent. Oh yeah, and John the eyewitnesses must’ve edited his eyewitnesserating cuz it’s also consistent.

    Delusion. Avoid it.

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    1. George Zimmerman was a “neighborhood WATCH patrol person”.
      His “rank” was “captain”. As the captain of the watch he knew or certainly should have known that it was against policy to carry a gun while participating in watch activities. He also should have been aware of the watch policies that stress that the watchers do NOT confront or chase anyone.

      So using these guidelines George Zimmerman did not follow proper procedure on two important policies. Add to this the facts that others in his neighborhood had complained about Zimmerman’s aggressive tactics before Trayvon was killed and it does not look good for his claim of self defense.

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    2. @alan:

      As the captain of the watch he knew or certainly should have known that it was against policy to carry a gun while participating in watch activities.

      Simply untrue. The NHW program did not have a “policy” against carrying a weapon.

      More importantly: any such “policy” would have been moot and nullified by the state concealed carry statutes, which declare preemption over any such policy.

      He also should have been aware of the watch policies that stress that the watchers do NOT confront or chase anyone.

      There is no evidence that Zimmerman either “chased” or “confronted” Martin – none whatsoever.

      What is in evidence is that Zimmerman lost sight of Martin before Zimmerman ever got out of his vehicle, and that the NEN operator said (paraphrased), “let us know if he does anything else”. At the time of the “Are you following him?” “We don’t need you to do that.” exchange, Zimmerman had not reacquired visual contact with Martin, didn’t know where he was, and was in no way “chasing” Martin. Zimmerman claims that he was merely trying to see where he went, and to get a reference house number – both of which are entirely plausible under the circumstances.

      And bear in mind: even if you could prove that Zimmerman “chased” or “confronted” Martin, neither action would have been unlawful, neither action would have constituted initial physical aggression under the relevant statutes, and neither action would have precluded Zimmerman from using deadly force in self-defense.

      So using these guidelines George Zimmerman did not follow proper procedure on two important policies.

      Untrue, as demonstrated above.

      Add to this the facts that others in his neighborhood had complained about Zimmerman’s aggressive tactics before Trayvon was killed…

      [citation needed]

      Surely that information would have made its way into the State’s discovery evidence; can you point me to it?

      …and it does not look good for his claim of self defense.

      Nothing you stated above, even if you had evidence to corroborate it, would have precluded Zimmerman from using deadly force to defend himself under the relevant statutes.

      The statutory elements:

      1) Was Zimmerman doing anything otherwise unlawful at the time of the altercation?
      2) Was Zimmerman the initial physical aggressor?
      2a) If Zimmerman was the initial physical aggressor, did Martin escalate the physical altercation, and did Zimmerman cease his aggression and clearly indicate a desire to exit the altercation?
      3) Did Zimmerman act to prevent or end the commission of a forcible felony, or out of reasonable fear of imminent risk of life or great bodily harm?

      And remember: the State must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. If they fail to do so, the jury will be instructed to find Zimmerman not guilty.

      The jury will never even deliberate on the charged offenses, unless and until they determine, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense.

      What evidence exists for such beyond-a-reasonable-doubt proof?

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      1. I’m going to provide a few links;

        http://www.mdjonline.com/view/full_story/17976861/article-Experts-say-neighborhood-watch-groups-should-not-carry-weapons

        http://www.nbc11news.com/news/headlines/After_Trayvon_Martin_neighborhood_watch_emphasizes_no_confrontation_145244805.html

        http://gawker.com/5894832/trayvon-martins-girlfriend-i-told-him-to-run-seconds-before-he-was-shot

        ” The statutory elements:

        1) Was Zimmerman doing anything otherwise unlawful at the time of the altercation? ”

        Confronting Trayvon Martin and asking him what he was doing walking home seems to be unlawful since he had no jurisdiction over anyone walking on a public street.

        The girl relayed the conversation in an interview with a lawyer:

        He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man…I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.

        Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for,’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn’t answer the phone.

        The Sanford Police have finally released transcripts of a phone conversation between the dispatcher and Zimmerman, who has yet to be charged with Martin’s murder. The transcript shows the following:

        Zimmerman: These assholes always get away.

        Dispatcher: Are you following him?

        Zimmerman: Yeah.

        Dispatcher: We don’t need you to do that.

        So Zimmerman has admitted to chasing/following Martin and since the shooting happened outside his vehicle, it stands to reason that he exited his vehicle to confront Martin.

        Hope this helps you to see what may be presented to the jury.

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      2. alan,
        youalso hear Zimmerman panting after he is told not to follow Martin, so he was clearly pursing him.

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      3. Chip,
        I would refer you to the 9-11 tape. Listen and you will hear heavy breathing of Zimmerman where he is running trying to find Martin. If I were Martin, and a man was running after me with a gun in it’s holster I’d be scarred!

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      4. malia said, “alan,
        youalso hear Zimmerman panting after he is told not to follow Martin, so he was clearly pursing him.”

        Yeah, except that I already debunked this myth. After providing you proof, you disappeared from the thread as usual. That noise you claim to be “panting” is the wind. It is a well-known fact at this point. Therefore he was NOT “clearly pursuing”. Get all these ridiculous lies the media installed in your head out. You’re a little puppet at they do whatever they please to you. Wake up.

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  12. Interesting exchange by most of the parties above.

    There is one huge hurdle that the state need to get past for them to have any chance at convicting George and that is, why was Trayvon at the T when the altercation started?

    There is no dispute that it started there and drifted south as evidence by the debris field starting with George’s keys at the T and ending with the heart phone which was located 10′ south of where Trayvon was mounted on top of George. Various items were in between. W11’s testimony shows also that they moved from north of her townhouse southward and past it to John’s (W6) backyard.

    So the question remains why, after approximately four minutes of George losing sight of him, did he appear at the T?

    One can say that he had the legal right to be there and not have to be at Brandi’s. While true, it would also show that he was not afraid of George. One can also say that George had the legal right to be there, too.

    I just can’t see that, because this started at the T, the beatdown was initiated by George. If this took place 380′ away, down in front of Brandi’s, the state may have a much better and more believable case.

    I don’t see how, since George lost sight of him and Trayvon was obviously NOT detained, how any outcome short of an acquittal gets handed down.

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  13. If we are not permitted to use lethal force to stop someone from cracking our skull, what’s the point of a concealed carry permit?
    Stand your ground law = Not Guilty.

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    1. I agree! So I guess if I buy a gun and I am getting my a** beat I can’t use my gun cause it will cause a lynch mob after me for my arrest……..so I guess they would rather me die or be severely injuried and have my gun stolen!

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    1. How was Trayvon looking for trouble when Zimmerman pursued him? The fact remains if Zimmerman had stayed in his car as directed the altercation would never had occurred. An unidentified man watches and follows a 17 year old kid was he not supposed to be afraid and attempt to defend himself. I bet if he was of another race it would be okay for him to defend himself.

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      1. That’s not what this is about. Legally this is about who struck the first blow. It doesn’t matter legally if Z got out of his truck and followed T. All that matters is if T hit Z first. If he did, then Z will be quitted and it was self defense. But, if Z hit T first then his defense crumbles and he can not use self defense. I know that people believe that it’s Z’s fault because he got out of his truck, but in a court of law that holds no barring. He was legally allowed to get out of his truck and even legally allowed to follow T.

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      2. jen,
        If Martin was up and trying to walk away and Zimmerman got off the ground and shot him, then it is clearly not self defense, and I think they were standing and Martin was trying to leave because the neighbor shouted that he was calling 9-1-1.

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      3. @Malia:

        …and I think they were standing and Martin was trying to leave because the neighbor shouted that he was calling 9-1-1.

        The forensics simply don’t support such a possibility. The outer sweatshirt was a contact shot, and the skin was a non-contact shot. The outer sweatshirt was separated from the skin by some distance (inches) from the skin.

        The evidence is unambiguous: Martin was leaning over on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired.

        Like

      4. Chip,
        But if he was on top at the time of the shot it seem the bullet trajectory would have been at an angle upwards instead of straight through!

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      5. @Malia:

        But if he was on top at the time of the shot it seem the bullet trajectory would have been at an angle upwards instead of straight through!

        The autopsy does not address the angle of trajectory with respect to the body. It merely states that the path itself was linear – that it did not deviate (e.g. due to striking bone, etc.).

        Isn’t it curious that the State is not putting on the ME, who could testify and clarify that question?

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      6. Chip,
        From what I just heard the bullet went straight through the body, front to back, and it seems if there were really a struggle with Martin on top in almost any position that would allow a gun to come between the two, it would have required the bullet to enter from front to back but at an angle toward Martin’s head…upward.

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      7. @Malia:

        Chip,
        From what I just heard the bullet went straight through the body, front to back, and it seems if there were really a struggle with Martin on top in almost any position that would allow a gun to come between the two, it would have required the bullet to enter from front to back but at an angle toward Martin’s head…upward.

        I’ll wait for the conclusion of cross-examination for full context, but I’ll just point out that it is entirely possible to fire such a shot into a leaning-over Martin. In fact, it would be highly likely that, from the ground, Zimmerman could only partially extend his arms, leading to a naturally angled shot. Again: entirely plausible for Zimmerman to have his forearm 45 degrees up from the ground, and for Martin to be leaning over Zimmerman 45 degrees, leading to a shot with no upward or downward direction.

        I’ll also point out that, had the two men been standing, Martin’s 5-9* inch height advantage would have required Zimmerman to fire upward in order to effect the observed trajectory.

        * Expect the defense to press this point, perhaps with the ME and certainly during their own case presentation. Martin was at least 6’2″ tall, not 5’11”. The 7-11 video proves it.

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      8. Chip,
        Except that where the bullet hole was it is clear the bullet entered Trayvon’s chest lower than trayvon’s arm pit, so close to the level of Zimmerman’s arm if extended straight outl

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      9. Real-time update: just now hearing that the ME will in fact testify, as the State’s final witness. Looks like we may get the opportunity to have the trajectory question answered!

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      10. This is not about who struck the first blow.

        You don’t automatically get to use deadly force because you get punched in the nose.

        Like

  14. Hey there! I just wanted to ask if you ever have any problems with hackers?
    My last blog (wordpress) was hacked and I ended up losing many months of hard work due to no back up.
    Do you have any solutions to prevent hackers?

    Like

  15. End of argument – some Black confronts me at 3.00 am in the morning & I will blow his head off-no questions, no regrets.

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  16. He was on his way to being a thug. And this just proves what he was willing and able to do to show that. It’s not about race it’s about life or death. If someone was beating ur head against the curb would u let them. He’ll no! Fight or flight is built Into everyone of us and their is no denying that. Stop involving race and start realizing what any person and I do mean person would do in that situation. It’s not hard to understand why he did what he did. It’s hard to believe that this Had to go this far but it happens everyday. You just don’t hear about it on a national/global scale.

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  17. Some people do horrible things like write heartless articles like this…Just to justify their hate for the world, and some of its occupants. These are the same sick people ( like the author) that are truly SHOCKED!! When karma strikes it’s mighty blow in their lives. A person died by the hands of a true coward. It’s so sad you can rationalize that to benefit your evil agenda.

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